Church teachings and misconceptions.

Someone on a Facebook group I admin for passed this along for discussion in the group. My response follows: 

"Protestant Friend:
We are all born sinners but baptism does not cleanse sin, it’s the next step of obedience from repentance and belief. The age of accountability differs between each child, there’s no set age, it’s just when they can say they believe in the gospel (Mark 16:16)
The Baptist church is not Protestant because we never protested the Catholic Church, everything we believe comes out of the Bible which is why scripture needs to back up everything.
Being saved is by grace through faith and not of works, it’s not something we have to earn or work for, it’s a gift given by God.
There’s no Limbo
There’s no purgatory
And of course we worship the saints and Mary."

My general response:
Firstly, just a general reminder that we need to operate in charity. Even with what seems to be very close-minded people who are saying things that are factually untrue, we still have to operate in love and charity. We have to be good witnesses to the Truth. We never accomplish that by being nasty or uncharitable. We pray for people who believe these things that somehow the full light of Christ can somehow enter into their consciousness.

One of the good rules of thumb when dealing with our Protestant cousins is “There, but for the grace of God, go I.” As this is a group for converts, we can all probably point to times in our lives where what we earnestly believed was not in the fullness of what the Church actually teaches. The Holy Spirit somehow led us to a greater understanding of Christ and the fullness of the Church. We were not always there, and may not be fully there still. So, again, we can pray for those who have not yet fully received the full light of Christ. They may be looking through the mirror darkly, but we hope that somehow God speaks and reveals Himself to them fully, as He once did (and does) to each of us.

Secondly, I do feel I should respond to some of these accusations. Yes, we are all born sinners. We can agree on that. We do believe in Original Sin. We do not, however, believe baptism has no power to forgive sin. We would agree that simply jumping in a lake on a hot summer day does not forgive sin, but jumping in a lake is not a Sacrament. We believe Sacraments have actual power because that is how God chooses to act. God can use baptism to forgive sin because He endows that otherwise menial act of entering into water as an extension of Himself. God chooses to forgive sin in that way because that is in one way how God chooses to do it. Baptism becomes an extension of God’s majesty and grace.

God could have chosen the first act of, say, eating cheese as the means through which He effects grace and forgiveness. He could have mandated that as He is God, but He chose not to do that, however. He ordained that Baptism with water is that means. We see that, for instance IN THE BIBLE in Ephesians 5: “...as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her 26 in order to sanctify her by cleansing her WITH WATER and the word,[c] 27 in order to present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such flaw, but holy and without the slightest blemish.” If that is not a direct description of the mystery of the forgiveness and cleansing of sin through baptism, I don’t know what is.

Now I have to admit I had a somewhat uncharitable chuckle at this second point about Baptists are not Protestant because they never protested the Catholic church. As Shakespeare once wrote, “Methinks he doth protest too much.” I mean, literally this entire thing is a bunch of protests against what he sees at Catholic doctrine. I mean, hey, if you don’t protest the Catholic church, you can come join anytime. Mother Church is still here any time with arms wide. Parenthetically, he might also read up on the history of a little place called Rogue’s Island that was founded by a guy who created the first Baptist Church in what became America. These Baptists were notorious for executing the poor Catholics (and Puritans and virtually anyone else as well) who happened to wash ashore on Rogue’s Island, or as it later became known: Rhode Island. So, that assertion that they are not somehow Protestant is, in all charity, simply historically incorrect.

Now, the next one is hard to quantify: the Faith and Works thing. This is one of those things where both sides often used the same verbiage but has different definitions and historically keep talking past each other. The Church has specifically rejected the heresy that you can work your way into heaven by your own merits. If you get to heaven, it is through Christ. That is a Divine grace, yes. But, we disagree on where works come into play. There is this weird false dichotomy often presented that somehow works and nothing to do with faith, and faith has nothing to do with works, as if bacon has nothing to do with a pig. You have to have one to have the other and vice versa. If you are not doing any good works as a Christian even if you believe all the right stuff...something is very, very wrong. There is a reason St. James said that ‘faith without works is dead.’ It may still be faith, but it’s a very dead faith.

I would finally on that point ask your friend if Baptism doesn’t forgive sin, or as he said, “baptism does not cleanse sin, it’s the next step of obedience from repentance and belief…”, what is obedience? It is something that humans do. God cannot be obedient for us. Therefore, if we take the basic dictionary definition of “work” as “exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil” (all of which would describe being obedient). Therefore, obedience is by definition a human work. This begs the question of whether Baptism by that definition does anything if it is a work, and work has nothing to do with Salvation if it’s all justification by faith alone and works are irrelevant. So, why then even have Baptism is it is simply a means to works based self delusion? Is Baptism like a graduation ceremony-a ceremonial walking across a stage for a fake piece of parchment for classes already taken and tuition already paid? Or is Baptism more like an vaccine innoculation. Does it have real power to physically change the body and soul? Does it have power in itself? Something to think about.

Now, limbo...the Church has never officially taught limbo. That was a hypothetical speculative theology that dealt with the idea of if, say, a baby died without being baptized, surely it would not go to hell but likewise could never see God in heaven. Again, the Church has never made a clear teaching on the concept. It appears currently to have largely been abandoned but not completely repudiated but never officially taught. The latest clear discussion I have ever found is from the 2007 International Theological Commission of the Curia which downgraded limbo to “a possible theological hypothesis.”

Now, Purgatory is a different matter. There have been definitive teachings that Purgatory exists. There is a rich theology on the treasury of merit and what have you that is tied to Purgatory in official teachings. But even then, exactly what Purgatory is has never largely been clearly taught. Maybe it’s different for different people. Longer for others and shorter for some.

And the old bugaboo about worshiping the Saints and Mary. That argument (read: protest) against Catholic teaching is as old as the Reformation itself. Actually, even older than that. There were people in the pre-Reformation era who were struggling with that issue as well, long before reformers like Luther and Calvin were ever on the scene. You can even look at the Iconoclastic controversies in the Eastern Church before the Middle Ages as tied to that, and even back into the Patristic Era Church controversies over the use of the term Theotokos “The God Bearer” as a title for Mary as all tied into those disputes. You can write whole tomes on that topic.

But, again, I come back to the concept of “There, but for the grace of God, go I.” We are all on life’s journey, asking God to light our way. All things in charity. We pray for people who have not yet been shown as much light as we have. We were once people in the shadows. We pray that our brothers and sisters may one day likewise step out of the shadows and join us under God’s street lamp.

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